j_luc_pitard ([info]j_luc_pitard) wrote,
  • Mood: cheerful

Friday roundup

So about those hydrogen cars?  Well I know a lot more now than I did.  Took a spin in Chevy's version.  They don't have many on the road and none for sale at this time.  Each fuel cell engine is currently hand made (as it were) rather than factory assembled, so they are huge buttloads of expensive and Chevy wants to get the cost down to a regular car cost.  They imagine some time around 2011 they might be selling some.  We test drove the car from Alexandria to DC (taking a long way since otherwise it would be a 7 mile drive, mostly stuck on a bridge). 

My concerns, which several friends here put to rest, were mainly about safety and the "carbon footprint" or cost of making the fuel from a coal or oil source.  Turns out the VP of R&D thinks they've made a very safe car and they are looking at renewable energy ways of making the hydrogen gas.  I know you're surprised he'd say that since you're not cynical or anything...  It passed the feds safety tests, including crashing it and lighting up fuel in a tunnel.  The VP think hydrogen got a bum rap with the Hindenburg since it may have been the paint on the fabric rather than the fuel that caused the fire.  There are many theories however and I don't think we have to buy that one because it fits with Chevy's goals.  The hydrogen fuel industry is pushing the paint theory as the truth which makes it suspect (no offense to Mr. Bain who firmly believes in it).  The VP went on to say that the hydrogen probably saved lives because it burned upwards instead of raining fire downward onto the passengers.  That may or may not be true, but 2/3 or so of the passengers did survive (62 of the 97 and all but 1 ground crew member) so I think I'll let that pass without rebuttal. 

The hydrogen fuel cell was plunked into a Chevy Equinox in part of the company's plan to make alternate fuel cars "normal" for the consumer.  It has a gas cap just like regular cars, but when you open it, a nozzle with indicator lights greets you.  The lights indicate locking for the coupler as well as registering 'full' and such.  We were told there was a fueling station nearby.  There will need to be a serious infrastructure commitment if hydrogen does win out on the alternate fuel front and there will probably be a lot of NIMBY actions taken to prevent them (although folks don't get too riled up when a new gas station goes in near them and they know how combustible petroleum is- go figure).  It was suggested that folks could make hydrogen at home using natural gas or solar energy and that was the only thing that would tempt me into the hydrogen camp.  I know the idea of making your own extremely flammable fuel where it could blow up your house sounds insane, but wouldn't it be cool to never go to the gas station again?  If it's done with solar, it wouldn't even have a "carbon footprint" at all.

The car was fine for a small SUV type thing.  I didn't drive, but it seemed to handle a lot any other car.  I drive a hybrid already, so I'm used to the engine shutting down and to the brakes grabbing a little differently so no problem there.  The SUV got around 40 miles to an equivalent gallon and some models will no doubt get more.  There are NO moving parts in the engine to wear down, so that's in the plus column.  It's ushering in a whole new concept of car where the engine can be made smaller and placed over each tire like the skateboard concept of the Chevy Sequel and yet look just like a normal car.

Unfortunately, the other aspects of the hydrogen car "as it is in this stage of development" don't tempt me at all.  Some of my complaints will probably be worked out before they are ready to market these, but...

There's this whine, see.  We were told it was due to the compressors that keep the hydrogen flowing and move the water out, but it is pretty noisy compared to the Prius or Civic hybrid when they're on their electric motors or idling.  Then there's the weird clicking that the VP said they haven't been able to engineer out yet.  It's most prominent when you shut the engine down, but it's there at other times I think, just masked under the other annoying noises.  He played it off as us hearing different noises than we're used to with combustion engines and I might've believed him if I hadn't driven other hybrids. 

It has a separate mode (no gears of course but they put in a "low" setting) that allows the breaks to engage when you take your foot off the gas.  It caused motion sickness in me because it was like stop and go constantly!  Nasty setting.  Bad Chevy!  Luckily we were almost done when the driver noticed it so I didn't woof in the brand new car.

Then there's my natural hesitation to trust a domestic auto maker that tries to jump in on a new market.  We had such bad luck with Ford when it tried half heartedly to compete with Japanese cars in the '70s that I won't even buy Ford anymore (yes, I was a kid, but it was a really bad car).  I've owned a Chevy van and loved it, but I can't deny that it needed a lot of repairs over its life.  Hence, I'm driving a Honda and our other car is Toyota.  The man who rode with us on the test drive was very committed to both the new technology and to the concern of getting the world weaned off of gas... yet there is this history of GM not making the right decisions and it hurting consumers in the end.

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  • 5 comments

Anonymous

November 3 2007, 00:12:56 UTC 4 years ago

GM

Broadly I agree with your suspicions, GM has been dreadful for much of recent memory. Ten years ago your Nephew got some GM stock as a 'safe' stock, it hasn't done very well at all. However noises from GM lately have been encouraging. I am not sold on Hydrogen, but I am damn glad they are at least looking at it rather than just waiting for the Japanese to invent something then license it as they are doing for hybrids. GM could be a powerhouse company if it could convince itself that R&D isn't just about how to fit more cup holders into a slightly reworked version what they made for the last fifteen years.

[info]j_luc_pitard

November 5 2007, 10:20:42 UTC 4 years ago

Re: GM

The man we took the spin with was very gung ho on the technology. So much so that I was surprised to hear him mention the other fuel options they were also working on. He seemed committed to getting the world to break its dependency on oil and was very proud of the prototype. If the whole process was directed by this guy, I'd be a lot more comfortable, but their decision to put these engines into the existing line of cars (with the inherent recall problems of many GM models) and the future decisions the automaker will make regarding the construction of the fuel cells once they are in the factory release process? That's where I see GM falling flat and consumers enthusiasm with it. You get a few stories of how the fuel cell dies or explodes due to some corner cut during manufacturing in China and... you lose the public.
I don't know how the piece turned out, but the VP was so honestly excited about a total change in automobiles you could feel it. That man would totally reinvent Detroit if he could.

[info]simonator

November 5 2007, 00:52:10 UTC 4 years ago

Well I've never worried about the safety question. I mean hey, hydrogen is lighter than air. In an accident it should just float away right? Unlike gasoline which combines pooling under the punctured tank with heavier than air vapours that waft around looking for an ignition source. It just doesn't seem likely to me that hydrogen will ever be competetive with gasoline on a cost basis.

[info]j_luc_pitard

November 5 2007, 10:26:55 UTC 4 years ago

That was the VP's point about safety and he made it over and over again. He said they've tested the explosive aspect of hydrogen and found it safer than petroleum (with comparable but not equal amounts of fuel- hydrogen tanks take like 4 kg versus an 18 gallon tank of gas). There are ways to make the cost work out and he proposed many of them. He showed how the cost could come out to be the same as gas but I think the new fuel to come will have to not only be competitive, it will have to beat gasoline to be accepted. Kind of silly, since gas will run out and if we don't embrace _something_ what will people do? Stop using energy? Unlikely.





[info]simonator

November 5 2007, 23:30:03 UTC 4 years ago

Actually, among the passengers of the Hindenberg, the chance of surviving was better among those who stayed abord until it hit the ground, rather than those who jumped to get offboard.
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